and again, the point is that we're in a slow growth economy, high unemployment economy, a more competitive world thanks in part to our policies of the past, we need to compete and the highest corporate tax rate in the world, what america has is not the way to be competitive. >> to make the argument we've made is to raise taxes and revenues and approach the fiscal cliff and argument from small businesses and others, if you increase our rate, we're either going to have to layoff individuals, not going to hire anybody else right now, and so, therefore, this economy that's already stalled is not going to grow at a clip. >> you remember two years ago, the question was, should we keep the bush rates, at least temporarily, given the problems in the economy and at that time, all the democrats acknowledged raising taxes is not a way to boost economic growth. for whatever reason, this time, there seems to be more of an ideological commitment that the rates have a rise and i think the president ought to be thinking, how do we grow. >> that's what the president said in 2010, we can't afford taxes righ